Friday, February 5, 2010

Rush Limbaugh on creationism and global warming

Media Matters has a clip of Rush Limbaugh's radio show in which Rush states that his belief in creationism makes him not believe that global warming is real.




This is the trouble with religion.  Rush Limbaugh is an idiot, yet is one of the most popular commentators in the US.  According to a link on Wikipedia, his show has over 14 million listeners each week.  He is a major influence on the public perception.

It should be noted that Rush frequently comments on science, but I don't believe has any science education past high school, and I'd love to see his grade in that course.  Also notice that in this clip he uses intelligent design and creationism interchangeably, which goes against the whole ID argument that ID is a science and is not linked to creationism.

Rush's claim is that we're designed by his god and so we can't do anything to harm the environment of the Earth.  I'd like to ask him a few simple questions:

1.  Have we driven many species to extinction?
2.  Have we polluted our lakes, rivers and oceans with industrial chemicals, oil, mercury, plastic, etc?
3.  Have we destroyed entire ecosystems, for example dynamiting coral reefs and deforesting huge areas?
4.  Have we fished the oceans to near the point of breaking?
5.  Have we filled the air with pollutants?

If he answered yes to any of the above (though he might deny even these), is that not 'harm'?  Your god doesn't exist, dude, and we are responsible for our actions.

His listeners would have to be stupid (oh, wait....) to think this argument has any merit.

36 comments:

ANTZILLA said...

Great Blog.
I've often argued with creationist that a creationist mindset instilled in todays societies
as been detrimental to the environment. "using plants and animals as we see fit"

In the past human societies have had many types e.g. God worshippes, Moon worshipper, Sun worshipper, Nature worshippers etc.

The God worshippers driven by there faith as justifercation for destroying the other peaseful societies.

Now we are left we evolved mindset that humans can do as we like because it writen in a stupid book.

If the societies that respected mother earth were left to floresh and were not converted /eliminated
by force from the God worshippers we wouldn't have the environmental problems of today, over population, human pollution, animal plant extintions etc.

Chris said...

I've long hated Rush Limbaugh for his ridiculously stupid political views, but this is a new low for even him. I wonder if he understands the contradiction he makes when he says that CO2 is good for trees and plant life yet at the same time deforestation is not harmful. And the whole thing about him being unable to accept the idea that humans were made to destroy makes me wonder if he obtained his fake history degree at the same time as he received his PHD in bullshit sciences.

Anonymous said...

How many burgers have been destroyed to get his magnificent physique? LOL

Cypher said...

He doesn't want to change his swanky lifestyle, even if he drags this whole rock down with him. Unfortunately most of my generation (at least in my country, presumably the majority of the western world) don't want to make the effort, so go along with this because it is a useful escape mechanism. I hate seeing the pictures on the news of new animals which have gone extinct, and its really unfortunate that we can't get a kickstart with a big shock to stmulate us into changing, because by that time it'll be too late for us.

Anonymous said...

It really pisses me off that people are that fucking gullible and stupid to believe in god/s.

But when their are also ignorant of human pollution that another level of retardation. FUCK these stupid fat fucking idoits. The whole envirnoment is going to shit because of a some stupid books read by fucking dump cunts. FUCK!!!!!!!!

ANTZILLA said...

This is an extract from a blog called "debunking atheists"

>>I cannot remember where but I remember hearing that the antichrist will separate the masses through this global warming agenda. It may be that the environment is the new one world religion or the false Messiah! People that conforms to this new "green" religion will be marked (the beast) and the ones that are not marked can neither buy or sell. Sounds like Cap and trade to me.<<

wow the rest of the world really has to fear the theist mindset of Americans.

Jim said...

I tend not to talk about Global Warming because it makes me so angry to watch people deny concrete evidence for Global Warming. I understand people want to believe in God. Fine, I get it. There is the fear of the unknown, and it helps put your mind at ease that this life is not all there is. I get it.

But to see the statistics, the science, the fool-proof evidence that we are destroying our world, and then deny it, and make claims that anyone who believes it is happening is part of a new "green" religion makes me sick.

Even if you are super conservative and Christian, there has to be a part of you somewhere that knows that saving the planet is simply the right thing to do.

Now, I may not believe in your God(s), but I am sure that if he did exist, he would want you to save the damn planet he created. You want to argue against abortion and say that all life is sacred? Good for you. But if are willing to condemn 6 billion people, millions of animals, millions of plants, and any other simple-celled life forms, then what is the point of anything?

What is your message? Life is only sacred if saving it is simple and I don't really have to do anything other than hold a sign outside an abortion clinic?

We may argue about whether or not any god exists, but there is one thing we can all agree on. This planet exists. You may not want to believe we can destroy it, and that is fine. But, for the love of god (In your case), believe that saving it is the right thing to do.

And in the end, if Global Warming is really not occurring, what did we do wrong? We switch to cleaner energy, save some natural habitats from destruction, and improve the overall quality of life for every living thing on this planet. I think that whatever your beliefs on Global Warming are, that is a worthy goal for all of us.

ANTZILLA said...

Well said Jim,

On the blog site "debunking Atheists" I've had an ongoing debate over various issues relating to Theism/atheism etc. However this creationist 'Dan' stated

“I think it is time to do an environment post."

I replied with,
"The Environment is a subject that requires in-depth understanding of many scientific disciplines. Dan with his ONE book doesn't have the required credentials to understand/comment."

He replied,
"You cannot get any better credential on this planet then the Bible, and the billions that live by it, and create government from it, will tell you that you are completely delusional to reject the evidence presented in said Bible."

So.... this gives an idea on what we have are up against retards with a bible written 1000's of years ago using it as text book.

ANTZILLA said...

Jim,

Can I copy your last post word for word and present it to creationist?

Jim said...

Oh, by all means.

Be sure to ask this nutter how exactly the Bible will help us in reducing carbon emissions, building clean-energy power plants and transport and repairing the damage done to the environment.

I doubt there was anything like, "And Jesus said unto them, 'Reduce your carbon footprint and rejoice!'."

ANTZILLA said...

This is the reponce from a atheist I got, waiting on creationist responce.

>>Antzilla, you say:

And in the end, if Global Warming is really not occurring, what did we do wrong?

Are you kidding? If we take measures to reduce CO2 emissions, not only will it increase taxes, throttle industry, and force us to use public transportation, but it will establish a socialistic communistic police state with Al Gore as dictator. At least that's what I'm told.<<

It seems that you don't have to believe in God/s to be a fucking moron.

Jim said...

No one ever said all atheists are smart.

ANTZILLA said...

True.

Daniel said...

Is that a common American midset?
Green = evil, 'communist' (like they know what it means), anti-liberty...
Just wondering.
And this is cypher now, my name has changed for some reason...

ANTZILLA said...

Jim,
As it turns out the atheist response I got was sarcasm. He was pointing out some of the crap people say.

It seems the mindset of creationist america is jesus is coming back so it doens't matter if i drive my hummer to the shop or pour weedkiller down the drain.

Jim said...

That's the biggest problem with the religious people. They claim greed and laziness are sins, but what do they do all their lives? Try to get themselves into heaven (Greed) and say God is going to sort out all the problems with the world (Laziness).

If there is one thing I cannot stand more than religious fanatics, it's a hypocrite.

ANTZILLA said...

Having only being actively debating atheisim/theism a short time there is one thing I have noticed with regards theists. When ever a theist post a comment with various points atheists generally debunk/point out very last detail of there stupid points. However on the other hand theists are VERY choosey on which points they wish to discuss. I call this the LA LA response. You would think that the constent supply of evidence, logic would eventully get through but it doesn't.

Feki said...

Well pointed Antzilla, that's exactly what that Eillix dude kept on doing: choosing his battles and remaining oblivious to all other arguments.

If you are still debating global warming issues I can provide you with sound references. I am in the carbon consulting business, doing emissions trading/footprinting etc.

From my point of view, solving global warming is not about smaller SUVs or hydrogen-fuelled cars. It is about NOT using the car to commute 30k to your workplace, or manufacturing aerosol-cheese products, or designing 5000 different types of cellphone chargers, or having fresh costarican pinneaples year-round in places like Minneapolis... or having the jonas brothers... or grassy front lawns, etc.

And yes, religion is partly to blame for condoning/encouraging consumerism and exhaustion of resources, along with all related environmental liabilities like climate change. And now too, for dismissing climate change as not anthropogenic.

Here's an example of religious environmental impact: thousands of pines and firs are logged each year in Canada and the US and sent to Mexico to be sold as christmas trees. The trees are shipped as refrigerated cargo, sometimes even by plane.

Come on! When exactly did jesus say: "And trees, but only coniferous ones, shall be cut, refrigerateth, transporteth on a gas-guzzling vehicle and decorateth with plastic ornaments for my birthday"????

We all know that cutting down of trees isn't about jesus. Still, the church fails to take action against it. The church simply cannot afford to alienate its flock of sheep because of some "insignificant" environmental impacts.

Jim said...

Well said.

But there is still another hurdle here in the fight to stop Global Warming. In order to get religious people in the loop, they have to be convinced that Jesus isn't going to save us all. I am pretty sure that there is a major fraction of religious types that know Global Warming is real, but refuse to do anything about it simply because they think it is all part of the book of Revelations. They probably think this is SUPPOSED to happen. And that is your real problem.

The people who perpetuate this nonsense are probably the people at the top of the church and the followers do exactly what they do best: follow.

I think that it is pretty obvious if the world were to get the Pope to say, "Global Warming is a major threat, and we should all do everything we can to save the environment," everyone would follow suit.

And not just Catholics. Most every major religion would, in their infinite greed, try to out-do the Catholics and start their own "Save the Environment" campaign.

Pandering to the masses does nothing. It's been proved time and time again. No matter what your arguments to the people are, they are always going to look up to whoever is in charge. No one wants to make a decision. They just want to be told what to do. To that end, the leaders of the nations should go straight to the Pope. You convince that one guy, your work is done.

Eillix said...

I see evidence *FOR* Global Warming everywhere. I strongly disagree with Rush Limbaugh.

While we have different beliefs I agree with the overall message of this post. We should be taking care of the planet. We have a responsibility to fix the mess that's been made. The fact that some think that we can't destroy things because the end of the world is coming is evidence of their mindset.

I frequently ask why we need a catastrophy like Global Warming to do things that we shold be doing anyway.

Companies like Better Place and Dong Energy are doing big things to reduce emissions and reduce dependency on petroleum. They've mentioned that they'd like to bring their ideas into new markets provided that local governments are willing.

So I guess the question is whether governments will help make this a possibility or not. It seems like wide spread adoption is dependent on this.

Daniel said...

And since the American government is basically Christian, this post's message still holds.
I found it funny that a Scotish cardinal criticised the UK government for not listening to the Catholic church's wishes, and almost proud when he slated them for allowing gay marriage and adoption, and abortion. See how free we all are when you idiots are kept the fuck away from our leaders? Nation based on freedom sure has a lot of mental shackles, huh?

ANTZILLA said...

Feki,
My thoughts on GW/human pollution are we should look at self sustainablity. from smallest to biggest and visaversa working together eg. every person does what they can to reduce CO2 footprint and pollution, then every household, then street, then suburb, then city, then state, then country, then continent, then world.

So if one area is suitable for solar us it, another area wind use it, another geothermal and so on. So if each house is more self sufficant,each street,city so forth the BIG polluters of base power/ food generation are less required.

Also the world should be actively trying to reduce populations. However saying all this the greed of people then start going on about the ecomomy.

At the end of the day the economy doesn't really exist exept on humans computers. The world economy just went ot shit without any influence of addressing the environment.

-- Elillx your back have you been prying for Admin to get his elephant.

Feki said...

Absolutely Antzilla, but self sustainability comes at a very high price: one has to avoid self-indulgence on a personal and social levels.

That involves lifestyle changes that many people are simply not willing to make, no matter the implications.

Like not having kids (agree, we are too many already). Or not vacationing in Cancun. Or not buying that pink plastic flamingo for your front lawn.

Sadly, society and religion are big promoters of self indulgence (buy more, have more kids, god is on your side) so I am inclined to place my bet on survivalism rather than behavioural changes.

Feki said...

Hi Eillix

Why would you care about the planet when your kind god can just snap hers/his/its fingers and make everything right again?

I mean, you just have to pray hard and she/he/it will either re-arrange all the CO2 molecules into cotton candy or creat more ice fields for penguins and polar bears. Afterall, it is her/his/its creation and she/he/it is supposed to look after it.

Or are you suggesting that your omniscient god failed to foresee that humans would discover fossil fuels and alter the chemical composition of the atmosphere with fatal consequences for the rest of the species on this planet?

:)


ps - were you the one who prayed for a spider in my kitchen? It worked!

Admin said...

Antzilla, no I have not received an elephant visitor yet.

Feki, I agree. I can't understand why Ellix would think that we have to do something to take care of ourselves, when he insists that prayer works. He should just be praying really hard for his god to help us.

Ellix, I think deep down, you know prayer doesn't work, or at least your confidence is not so great that you would risk the future of the planet for it. There is doubt in you, it's clearly apparent.

ANTZILLA said...

Feki,
Have you any examples of water wastage. I've heard for example by the time you drink a 375ml can of coke about 5 litres of water is used from manufacting to transport etc. for that one can.

Feki said...

Hi Antzilla

It is not easy to find reliable sources. These figures range from conservative to all-out-of-whack, specially when targeting a specific industry. My suggestion to you is to look for product life-cycle assessments, which follow a standardized approach and describe the boundary (ideally from raw material to final disposal) and all inputs (energy, resources) involved. A LCA will provide you with solid references for citing water demand per unit, kWh utilized and even associated GHG emissions upstream and downstream (unlike GHG inventories, which leave suppliers, third parties and product disposal out of the scope).

If you need a specific reference for a particular product I can help you look it up.

ANTZILLA said...

Hi ALL I've had one creationist use a joke from a comedian as a good reference to what he believes

CREATIONIST:
We were having a discussion on the environment and I thought it would be better to voice my opinion on the matter. Now, I was going to point out the recent discoveries of the lies told in the name of the global warming and the whole cap and tax (trade) scenario and such but then I remembered what George Carlin said about it that almost mirrored what my beliefs about this subject were. Now, if we take out the belief of God in this manner, that the earth is 4 billion years old, and the occasional cuss word, Carlin's and my viewpoints about the arrogant environmentalists are pretty spot on. Save the planet? Give us a break.

.... cont

ANTZILLA said...

...cont.
This is george catlin joke he is refering to:


George Carlin's "The Planet Is Fine"

We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these f***ing people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the f***ing planet?

I'm getting tired of that s***. Tired of that s***. I'm tired of f***ing Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a s*** about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are f***ed. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your s***, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

.... cont

ANTZILLA said...

...cont
You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...a******.

So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while."

-----------------------------------
END

Admin said...

Yes, well.... personally, I'd prefer a plan which does not require the extinction of the human species. I'd like to find a way for us to continue to live, but with a cleaner, greener Earth. Of course, the creationists DESPERATELY WANT the end of the world, and are LOOKING FORWARD to it, so they don't give a flying fuck what we do to this place.

Eillix said...

Feki,

Yep I'm back. Work has been really intense for the last few months.

So wait a minute. I agree with this overall message of this post and you still have a problem with that?

I don't get it. Enlighten me.

By the way Feki, see Jim's response if you want an answer on why we should take care of our planet. :)

Also Admin ended the conversation in his previous post so out of respect I haven't responded to his comments regarding prayer. I'd love to respond to his comment regarding "stampy" (and everything else) but he said not to.

P.S. I didn't pray for the spider in your kitchen. :)


Antzilla,

Nope haven't prayed for Admin to get an elephant. No need to.


Admin,

You said:
Feki, I agree. I can't understand why Ellix would think that we have to do something to take care of ourselves, when he insists that prayer works. He should just be praying really hard for his god to help us.

I Say:
This raises a philosophical dilemma: if that were the case we wouldn't really have free will now would we? How can we choose anything if our decisions do not lead to new results (positive or negative)? If negative consequences are removed each & every time we make a bad decision do we truly have the opportunity to make decision?

I don't presume to know (or understand) what God chooses to do in each circumstance. I do see that we receive the negative consequences of our individual (& collective) actions.

I also see that many choices have degrees to them. Thus, the fire that warms us is the fire that burns us.

Does that answer your question? Let me know.

You said:
Ellix, I think deep down, you know prayer doesn't work, or at least your confidence is not so great that you would risk the future of the planet for it. There is doubt in you, it's clearly apparent.

I Say:
Admin, can you unpack this and break it down further please? I'm interested in hearing more about why you feel there is "doubt" in me.

Eillix said...

Admin,

I don't speak for all "religious types" but I care very much about what happens to our planet.

Why should others (present & future generations) suffer for the poor choices we make?

I want to make things better for everyone as well.

Daniel said...

Eillix did you read over what you typed and think 'That was a great little argument?'
Really?
Because if so your standards are loooow.
'If negative consequences are removed each & every time we make a bad decision do we truly have the opportunity to make decision?'
Yes. The suspension of those consequences would not happen without the bad decision being made, so cause-and-effect really takes over.

Admin said...

"Also Admin ended the conversation in his previous post so out of respect I haven't responded to his comments regarding prayer."

Well, it's honestly because I don't have any respect for your position. That's right. Your position is ridiculous, indefensible, and intellectually void. I have no respect for it. You set-up a position which is indistinguishable from the non-existence case, and use it to argue the existence of your invisible friend. Your invisible friend, who is claimed to love all people, helps you with trivial matters while ignoring real need and desperation. You refuse to even attempt to prove it in any way that might be useful to others, yet insist on coming here to tell us all about it. You refuse to prove it, even if that proof could benefit a worthwhile organisation to the tune of $1 million. Again, I have no respect for your position on this issue. It has no intellectual merit. There is only so much I can take of people, grown adults, coming to me and using unverifiable anecdotes to justify their invisible friend.

Admin said...

I should also add that your position, when viewed from the angle of why your friend does nothing about real suffering, actually disgusts me. It shows you, and your invisible friend, in a light with a tint of selfishness, ignorance, arrogance and even a little monstrosity.