Wednesday, April 25, 2012

Legislating away our free will

I've decided that Christians must believe that their god gave us free will so that they could legislate it out of us.  If they had their way, any non-Christian act (by the definition of which sect, I wonder?), would be illegal and therefore banned.  That isn't exactly free will, is it?  So why are they opposing their god's desire for us to be able to act freely in a non-believing manner?


Anonymous said...

Technically the most common interpretation is that nothing is outside an omnipotent God's will. All good an evil are inevitable, and even "free will" itself is predetermined. Even in rebellion you cannot disobey. You only dance on strings you can never feel that dangle for the desiccated hand of a monstrous and unknowable God. Essentially even the Devil(assuming you don't just consider him the prosecutor of man rather than a rebel) is just a puppet that refuses to admit he is one, and ironically even his refusal is still predetermined.

You don't even need supernaturalsim to destroy the philosophical concept of freewill, plain old physical determinism already does that. Every thought an organism can have could be predicted, assuming you could collect data about location and activities of every single atom in the universe throughout its history. Now that would require data to be collected before their was anyone to collect it, a computer with more mass than the universe, and a violation of the light speed limit of computing. But as a supposition is it viable.

Freewill just means that shit is so hard to predict that it might as well be freewill, not that you are actually free.

Omnibenevolent just means good for man in the end of all things not nice, kind, just, or fair. It could even be an unknowable supernatural good. Benevolence is an attribution of those divining God's will and nature.

And if you don't think a heartless, vast, incomprehensible God is cool; well then you an I have very different tastes.

Little background so you have a point of reference.

Biostratigrapher, petroleum geologist, MS/BS geology, minor engineering, PhD Geology pending, 1 wife, 1 kids, one coming, worship privately but closest to Calvinists in theology.

Things I value: survival of myself, offspring, and all related individuals; the propagation of my bloodline; my wife; acquisition and stockpiling of resources to provide for my family, loyalty to long standing allies; my species; the application of the scientific method to create predictive models, deference and service to dark and thirsting supernatural forces without expectation of reward; getting a laugh on the intertubes after working 10 hours on the weekend.

Things I do not and never will value: happiness; pleasure; pain; personal fulfillment; emotions; morals; any non human species not being used as chattel; any non-human intelligent organism, they must all be destroyed; the lives of organisms that have of no prospective utility to me.

Current goals: Produce 1-2 more offspring; accumulate wealth and create and environment conducive to their reproductive success; collect more vespine gas; facilitate the slow conquest of the universe by my species


Know that this world is a altar forever overflowing with the blood of sacrifice. Know that we shall make the entire universe an altar to our blood god. There will be no peace, nor should their be, only an eternity of war as we fight over the scraps. Know that there is nothing moralists like you can do to stop it.


Admin said...


Anonymous said...

You think perhaps I am being facicious or exagerating and I am, but only just. Everything I said is essentially true with regards to myself

Really read the pastebin, the rest is me getting under your skin. Read the source documents about nuclear pulse propulsion. If you apply their math to modern thermonuclear warheads I think you be be pleasantly suprised by the results.

Or perhaps not, you strike me as a person that doesn't the the necessity of exterminating xenos filth from environments we would like to inhabit.

Though given who easy interstellar travel is, it is somewhat unlikely we will find any competing organisms in this galaxy. If they existed, we wouldn't. Assuming there was not a ridiculous coincidence like two species developing nuclear pulse propulsion within 1 million years of each other.

Regardless, humanity will conquer the universe in the name of our dark gods. Also its a damn fine survival strategy if I do say myself.

Admin said...


Anonymous said...

You seem singularly unenthusiastic about the prospect of pan-cosmic imperialism and xenocide. Would it not be the best possible survival strategy for humans to dominate all environments suitable for sustaining us and our attendant industry?

This is not scifi, not even "hard scifi" there is no engineering limitation preventing the construction of vessels utilizing nuclear pulse propulsion capable of a deltaV of perhaps 0.28c, assuming they use modern thermo-nuclear warheads as propulsive charges and the ship is the of optimized size with the pusher plate diameter being 200m to 2km across.

Admin said...

Doesn't surprise me at all that you're in the petroleum industry. That or finance were really the only two options possible.

Anonymous said...

I got into petroleum geology as an undergraduate and found it fascinating and very profitable, I must be one of eleven college students that never had to take out a loan through a combination of my farm work as a boy and my job as an amateur petroleum geologist. Also every single facet of geology is useful in the oil patch, so it is interesting work.

Never cared for business though, they don't produce physical products and I am a doer not a facilitator of other peoples' work.

I assume you don't hold a degree in the natural sciences? Because my attitudes are very common among American scientists under 30 years of age, also the Chinese surprisingly. Almost everyone is brutal, objective, apolitical, focused on practical application, derisive of philosophy and the introduction of subjective criteria such as ethics into the scientific method, and usually quite religious. Especially the Chinese, allot of them are Chinese Monotheists tinged with Budhism or Christianity, since apparently the PRC likes Buddhism and their brand of Catholicism no. Don't ask me why, I am not preview to their machinations and none of the students could really explain the reason for the sudden change in policy.

You will find no Carl Sagans in an science department today, thankfully. What you will find

Though that is anecdotal and I have not met the requisite 1,000 or so people to make my sample representative even to myself.

Admin said...

Bachelor of Science in Physics and Astronomy, Master of Science in Aerospace Engineering. And to be honest, I'd prefer as little interaction as possible with you and anybody like you.

Anonymous said...

Excuse my shitty connection.

continued -What you will find- are blacksmiths that fell in love with their anvils. That is the best way I can describe the current stock of grad students to you.

Anonymous said...

>Bachelor of Science in Physics and Astronomy, Master of Science in Aerospace Engineering. And to be honest, I'd prefer as little interaction as possible with you and anybody like you.

Huh, odd I would think someone with your background would be more interested in nuclear pulse propulsion than myself. Talking about it was how I originally won over my wife who hold a dual BS in Nuclear Engineering and Physics, with an MS in structural physics. She did a revision of the old "casaba howitzer" concept for PennState, more specifically she designed the focus for the aperture that would collate the stream of low density high-velocity plasma emitted by the device.

There are some bright minds in her bunch, they were working on an entirely theoretical model for a confined anti-hydrogen reaction engine. I don't know if these things interest you but I will however bend your ear just with one trick I came up with myself and later suggested to them, though I will never get nor expect any credit for by back of the envelope style work. Introduce a few dozen kg of argon into a hydrogen-antihydrogen confined reaction engine and you can produce a "true laser" unlike the lensed lasers we make today. Basically you can shape the magnetic bottle containing the reaction to create a coherent beam without lenses. So assuming 1% efficiency for a say a 15 petwatt engine; that's 36 kilotons being transferred into the target per second.

*breaks down in maniacal laughter*
I can feel the Warp overtaking me!

And if you have got any of the Warhammer 40k references in the previous posts give yourself a gold star of nerdom.

You understand that I must needle you, I needle everyone. I'm kinda a dick like that.

Though I hope if nothing else I have diswaded you from from any notion that those with relatively high intelligence and technical acumen are not beholden to gods. Even those a bit more objective or at least more practical than yourself given your odd dislike of slaughtering animals when it would benefit you and various other possibly maladaptive behaviors imposed by your specific moral code.

Admin said...

"I'm kinda a dick like that."

In a lot of ways, actually. We're done here. Good day.

Anonymous said...

I will not say I am feed you gold in the form of my tired but amused ramblings. But I feed you bronze at least, and you shit me nothing.

Are the actual devices themselves, a pulse propulsion impingement plate engine and a magnetically confined petawatt output hydrogen engine repurposed into a giant space gun, not intriguing?

Are the concepts themselves not intellectually stimulating?

A scientist should feel absoluting nothing while collecting data or running an experiment, not even curiosity so as to minimize potential bias. But really why not engage at a technical level? This is your area of interest is it not? Critique the concepts, I don't expect a material balance equation or cost analysis, but something. Engage me at a technical level, one scientist to another. Dissenting opinions about these sort of things are always welcome.

Does my subjective set of value judgements truly offend thee that much?

With so many people playing the game it is only expected that some will find themselves on opposite sides of the board, but that does not mean we cannot be cordial in play.

I hoped for banter and entertainment, to be insulted and and insult in return.

You make me sad. So be it. Come Patsy!*clipclop clipclop clipclop*