Comments on Atheist Propaganda: Rush Limbaugh on creationism and global warming

I should also add that your position, when viewed ...

2010-03-18T07:26:48.554+09:00

I should also add that your position, when viewed from the angle of why your friend does nothing about real suffering, actually disgusts me. It shows you, and your invisible friend, in a light with a tint of selfishness, ignorance, arrogance and even a little monstrosity.

"Also Admin ended the conversation in his pre...

2010-03-18T06:29:28.993+09:00

"Also Admin ended the conversation in his previous post so out of respect I haven't responded to his comments regarding prayer."

Well, it's honestly because I don't have any respect for your position. That's right. Your position is ridiculous, indefensible, and intellectually void. I have no respect for it. You set-up a position which is indistinguishable from the non-existence case, and use it to argue the existence of your invisible friend. Your invisible friend, who is claimed to love all people, helps you with trivial matters while ignoring real need and desperation. You refuse to even attempt to prove it in any way that might be useful to others, yet insist on coming here to tell us all about it. You refuse to prove it, even if that proof could benefit a worthwhile organisation to the tune of $1 million. Again, I have no respect for your position on this issue. It has no intellectual merit. There is only so much I can take of people, grown adults, coming to me and using unverifiable anecdotes to justify their invisible friend.

Eillix did you read over what you typed and think ...

2010-03-18T06:09:48.629+09:00

Eillix did you read over what you typed and think 'That was a great little argument?'
Really?
Because if so your standards are loooow.
'If negative consequences are removed each & every time we make a bad decision do we truly have the opportunity to make decision?'
Yes. The suspension of those consequences would not happen without the bad decision being made, so cause-and-effect really takes over.

Admin, I don't speak for all "...

2010-03-18T03:08:06.745+09:00
Admin,

I don't speak for all "religious types" but I care very much about what happens to our planet.

Why should others (present & future generations) suffer for the poor choices we make?

I want to make things better for everyone as well.

Feki, Yep I'm back. Work has been rea...

2010-03-18T03:01:02.070+09:00
Feki,

Yep I'm back. Work has been really intense for the last few months.

So wait a minute. I agree with this overall message of this post and you still have a problem with that?

I don't get it. Enlighten me.

By the way Feki, see Jim's response if you want an answer on why we should take care of our planet. :)

Also Admin ended the conversation in his previous post so out of respect I haven't responded to his comments regarding prayer. I'd love to respond to his comment regarding "stampy" (and everything else) but he said not to.

P.S. I didn't pray for the spider in your kitchen. :)

Antzilla,

Nope haven't prayed for Admin to get an elephant. No need to.

Admin,

You said:
Feki, I agree. I can't understand why Ellix would think that we have to do something to take care of ourselves, when he insists that prayer works. He should just be praying really hard for his god to help us.

I Say:
This raises a philosophical dilemma: if that were the case we wouldn't really have free will now would we? How can we choose anything if our decisions do not lead to new results (positive or negative)? If negative consequences are removed each & every time we make a bad decision do we truly have the opportunity to make decision?

I don't presume to know (or understand) what God chooses to do in each circumstance. I do see that we receive the negative consequences of our individual (& collective) actions.

I also see that many choices have degrees to them. Thus, the fire that warms us is the fire that burns us.

Does that answer your question? Let me know.

You said:
Ellix, I think deep down, you know prayer doesn't work, or at least your confidence is not so great that you would risk the future of the planet for it. There is doubt in you, it's clearly apparent.

I Say:
Admin, can you unpack this and break it down further please? I'm interested in hearing more about why you feel there is "doubt" in me.

Yes, well.... personally, I'd prefer a plan w...

2010-03-11T21:18:25.623+09:00
Yes, well.... personally, I'd prefer a plan which does not require the extinction of the human species. I'd like to find a way for us to continue to live, but with a cleaner, greener Earth. Of course, the creationists DESPERATELY WANT the end of the world, and are LOOKING FORWARD to it, so they don't give a flying fuck what we do to this place.

...cont You wanna know how the planet's doing?...

2010-03-11T13:30:49.774+09:00
...cont
You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...a******.

So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while."

-----------------------------------
END

...cont. This is george catlin joke he is refering...

2010-03-11T13:29:46.074+09:00
...cont.
This is george catlin joke he is refering to:

George Carlin's "The Planet Is Fine"

We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these f***ing people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the f***ing planet?

I'm getting tired of that s***. Tired of that s***. I'm tired of f***ing Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a s*** about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are f***ed. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your s***, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

.... cont

Hi ALL I've had one creationist use a joke fro...

2010-03-11T13:27:51.290+09:00
Hi ALL I've had one creationist use a joke from a comedian as a good reference to what he believes

CREATIONIST:
We were having a discussion on the environment and I thought it would be better to voice my opinion on the matter. Now, I was going to point out the recent discoveries of the lies told in the name of the global warming and the whole cap and tax (trade) scenario and such but then I remembered what George Carlin said about it that almost mirrored what my beliefs about this subject were. Now, if we take out the belief of God in this manner, that the earth is 4 billion years old, and the occasional cuss word, Carlin's and my viewpoints about the arrogant environmentalists are pretty spot on. Save the planet? Give us a break.

.... cont

Hi Antzilla It is not easy to find reliable sourc...

2010-03-02T12:37:08.216+09:00
Hi Antzilla

It is not easy to find reliable sources. These figures range from conservative to all-out-of-whack, specially when targeting a specific industry. My suggestion to you is to look for product life-cycle assessments, which follow a standardized approach and describe the boundary (ideally from raw material to final disposal) and all inputs (energy, resources) involved. A LCA will provide you with solid references for citing water demand per unit, kWh utilized and even associated GHG emissions upstream and downstream (unlike GHG inventories, which leave suppliers, third parties and product disposal out of the scope).

If you need a specific reference for a particular product I can help you look it up.

Feki, Have you any examples of water wastage. I...

2010-03-02T11:15:22.594+09:00
Feki,
Have you any examples of water wastage. I've heard for example by the time you drink a 375ml can of coke about 5 litres of water is used from manufacting to transport etc. for that one can.

Antzilla, no I have not received an elephant visit...

2010-03-02T09:13:29.184+09:00
Antzilla, no I have not received an elephant visitor yet.

Feki, I agree. I can't understand why Ellix would think that we have to do something to take care of ourselves, when he insists that prayer works. He should just be praying really hard for his god to help us.

Ellix, I think deep down, you know prayer doesn't work, or at least your confidence is not so great that you would risk the future of the planet for it. There is doubt in you, it's clearly apparent.

Hi Eillix Why would you care about the planet whe...

2010-03-02T02:16:37.824+09:00
Hi Eillix

Why would you care about the planet when your kind god can just snap hers/his/its fingers and make everything right again?

I mean, you just have to pray hard and she/he/it will either re-arrange all the CO2 molecules into cotton candy or creat more ice fields for penguins and polar bears. Afterall, it is her/his/its creation and she/he/it is supposed to look after it.

Or are you suggesting that your omniscient god failed to foresee that humans would discover fossil fuels and alter the chemical composition of the atmosphere with fatal consequences for the rest of the species on this planet?

:)

ps - were you the one who prayed for a spider in my kitchen? It worked!

Absolutely Antzilla, but self sustainability comes...

2010-03-02T02:01:20.227+09:00
Absolutely Antzilla, but self sustainability comes at a very high price: one has to avoid self-indulgence on a personal and social levels.

That involves lifestyle changes that many people are simply not willing to make, no matter the implications.

Like not having kids (agree, we are too many already). Or not vacationing in Cancun. Or not buying that pink plastic flamingo for your front lawn.

Sadly, society and religion are big promoters of self indulgence (buy more, have more kids, god is on your side) so I am inclined to place my bet on survivalism rather than behavioural changes.

Feki, My thoughts on GW/human pollution are we sho...

2010-03-01T08:50:32.646+09:00
Feki,
My thoughts on GW/human pollution are we should look at self sustainablity. from smallest to biggest and visaversa working together eg. every person does what they can to reduce CO2 footprint and pollution, then every household, then street, then suburb, then city, then state, then country, then continent, then world.

So if one area is suitable for solar us it, another area wind use it, another geothermal and so on. So if each house is more self sufficant,each street,city so forth the BIG polluters of base power/ food generation are less required.

Also the world should be actively trying to reduce populations. However saying all this the greed of people then start going on about the ecomomy.

At the end of the day the economy doesn't really exist exept on humans computers. The world economy just went ot shit without any influence of addressing the environment.

-- Elillx your back have you been prying for Admin to get his elephant.

And since the American government is basically Chr...

2010-03-01T04:05:01.510+09:00
And since the American government is basically Christian, this post's message still holds.
I found it funny that a Scotish cardinal criticised the UK government for not listening to the Catholic church's wishes, and almost proud when he slated them for allowing gay marriage and adoption, and abortion. See how free we all are when you idiots are kept the fuck away from our leaders? Nation based on freedom sure has a lot of mental shackles, huh?

I see evidence *FOR* Global Warming everywh...

2010-03-01T03:47:46.864+09:00
I see evidence *FOR* Global Warming everywhere. I strongly disagree with Rush Limbaugh.

While we have different beliefs I agree with the overall message of this post. We should be taking care of the planet. We have a responsibility to fix the mess that's been made. The fact that some think that we can't destroy things because the end of the world is coming is evidence of their mindset.

I frequently ask why we need a catastrophy like Global Warming to do things that we shold be doing anyway.

Companies like Better Place and Dong Energy are doing big things to reduce emissions and reduce dependency on petroleum. They've mentioned that they'd like to bring their ideas into new markets provided that local governments are willing.

So I guess the question is whether governments will help make this a possibility or not. It seems like wide spread adoption is dependent on this.

Well said. But there is still another hurdle here...

2010-02-27T02:01:46.854+09:00
Well said.

But there is still another hurdle here in the fight to stop Global Warming. In order to get religious people in the loop, they have to be convinced that Jesus isn't going to save us all. I am pretty sure that there is a major fraction of religious types that know Global Warming is real, but refuse to do anything about it simply because they think it is all part of the book of Revelations. They probably think this is SUPPOSED to happen. And that is your real problem.

The people who perpetuate this nonsense are probably the people at the top of the church and the followers do exactly what they do best: follow.

I think that it is pretty obvious if the world were to get the Pope to say, "Global Warming is a major threat, and we should all do everything we can to save the environment," everyone would follow suit.

And not just Catholics. Most every major religion would, in their infinite greed, try to out-do the Catholics and start their own "Save the Environment" campaign.

Pandering to the masses does nothing. It's been proved time and time again. No matter what your arguments to the people are, they are always going to look up to whoever is in charge. No one wants to make a decision. They just want to be told what to do. To that end, the leaders of the nations should go straight to the Pope. You convince that one guy, your work is done.

Well pointed Antzilla, that's exactly what tha...

2010-02-27T01:24:23.888+09:00
Well pointed Antzilla, that's exactly what that Eillix dude kept on doing: choosing his battles and remaining oblivious to all other arguments.

If you are still debating global warming issues I can provide you with sound references. I am in the carbon consulting business, doing emissions trading/footprinting etc.

From my point of view, solving global warming is not about smaller SUVs or hydrogen-fuelled cars. It is about NOT using the car to commute 30k to your workplace, or manufacturing aerosol-cheese products, or designing 5000 different types of cellphone chargers, or having fresh costarican pinneaples year-round in places like Minneapolis... or having the jonas brothers... or grassy front lawns, etc.

And yes, religion is partly to blame for condoning/encouraging consumerism and exhaustion of resources, along with all related environmental liabilities like climate change. And now too, for dismissing climate change as not anthropogenic.

Here's an example of religious environmental impact: thousands of pines and firs are logged each year in Canada and the US and sent to Mexico to be sold as christmas trees. The trees are shipped as refrigerated cargo, sometimes even by plane.

Come on! When exactly did jesus say: "And trees, but only coniferous ones, shall be cut, refrigerateth, transporteth on a gas-guzzling vehicle and decorateth with plastic ornaments for my birthday"????

We all know that cutting down of trees isn't about jesus. Still, the church fails to take action against it. The church simply cannot afford to alienate its flock of sheep because of some "insignificant" environmental impacts.

Having only being actively debating atheisim/theis...

2010-02-26T11:05:04.727+09:00
Having only being actively debating atheisim/theism a short time there is one thing I have noticed with regards theists. When ever a theist post a comment with various points atheists generally debunk/point out very last detail of there stupid points. However on the other hand theists are VERY choosey on which points they wish to discuss. I call this the LA LA response. You would think that the constent supply of evidence, logic would eventully get through but it doesn't.

That's the biggest problem with the religious ...

2010-02-24T14:34:04.674+09:00
That's the biggest problem with the religious people. They claim greed and laziness are sins, but what do they do all their lives? Try to get themselves into heaven (Greed) and say God is going to sort out all the problems with the world (Laziness).

If there is one thing I cannot stand more than religious fanatics, it's a hypocrite.

Jim, As it turns out the atheist response I got wa...

2010-02-24T07:35:46.125+09:00
Jim,
As it turns out the atheist response I got was sarcasm. He was pointing out some of the crap people say.

It seems the mindset of creationist america is jesus is coming back so it doens't matter if i drive my hummer to the shop or pour weedkiller down the drain.

Is that a common American midset? Green = evil, &#...

2010-02-24T06:55:42.778+09:00
Is that a common American midset?
Green = evil, 'communist' (like they know what it means), anti-liberty...
Just wondering.
And this is cypher now, my name has changed for some reason...

True.

2010-02-23T12:08:10.474+09:00
True.

No one ever said all atheists are smart.

2010-02-23T10:30:39.808+09:00
No one ever said all atheists are smart.

Comments on Atheist Propaganda: Rush Limbaugh on creationism and global warming

I should also add that your position, when viewed ...

"Also Admin ended the conversation in his pre...

Eillix did you read over what you typed and think ...

Admin, I don't speak for all "...

Feki, Yep I'm back. Work has been rea...

Yes, well.... personally, I'd prefer a plan w...

...cont You wanna know how the planet's doing?...

...cont. This is george catlin joke he is refering...

Hi ALL I've had one creationist use a joke fro...

Hi Antzilla It is not easy to find reliable sourc...

Feki, Have you any examples of water wastage. I...

Antzilla, no I have not received an elephant visit...

Hi Eillix Why would you care about the planet whe...

Absolutely Antzilla, but self sustainability comes...

Feki, My thoughts on GW/human pollution are we sho...

And since the American government is basically Chr...

I see evidence FOR Global Warming everywh...

Well said. But there is still another hurdle here...

Well pointed Antzilla, that's exactly what tha...

Having only being actively debating atheisim/theis...

That's the biggest problem with the religious ...

Jim, As it turns out the atheist response I got wa...

Is that a common American midset? Green = evil, &#...

True.

No one ever said all atheists are smart.

Comments on Atheist Propaganda: Rush Limbaugh on creationism and global warming

I should also add that your position, when viewed ...

"Also Admin ended the conversation in his pre...

Eillix did you read over what you typed and think ...

Admin, I don't speak for all "...

Feki, Yep I'm back. Work has been rea...

Yes, well.... personally, I'd prefer a plan w...

...cont You wanna know how the planet's doing?...

...cont. This is george catlin joke he is refering...

Hi ALL I've had one creationist use a joke fro...

Hi Antzilla It is not easy to find reliable sourc...

Feki, Have you any examples of water wastage. I...

Antzilla, no I have not received an elephant visit...

Hi Eillix Why would you care about the planet whe...

Absolutely Antzilla, but self sustainability comes...

Feki, My thoughts on GW/human pollution are we sho...

And since the American government is basically Chr...

I see evidence *FOR* Global Warming everywh...

Well said. But there is still another hurdle here...

Well pointed Antzilla, that's exactly what tha...

Having only being actively debating atheisim/theis...

That's the biggest problem with the religious ...

Jim, As it turns out the atheist response I got wa...

Is that a common American midset? Green = evil, &#...

True.

No one ever said all atheists are smart.

I see evidence FOR Global Warming everywh...